Their contribution if negligible compared
The author Nivvedan Senthamil Selvan, tries to substantiate his arguments against the subsidies given to the Indian Institute of Technologies, but fails miserably (“No, Smriti Irani is not wasting your money on the IITians”). In our country, both doctors (there are some exceptions) and IITians are most greedy people around. Their contribution to our motherland is negligible when compared to the amount spent on their subsidies. – ASI Kannan
***
I fully endorse your views on the subsidy to the IITs. The students should take loans from banks and the government should facilitate this. The payment of this loan would be very easy for IITians, as they earn a very good salary later. This subsidy should be used to strengthen primary education instead. – NK Kashmira
***
Don't envy IITians. They do a better job that feeds the hungry Indians than the media houses. They earn revenue 1,500 times more for the government than the media houses, by working for government projects given to them. And most of all, mind you, their parents pay their fees and not the government. Stop exploiting IITians. – Sara M
***
This is quite a valid concern. Those studying engineering from government colleges should not be allowed to change their stream immediately. They should be guided towards M.Tech instead. – Ajay Buttan
***
Your article on the IITs is an eye opener to every human being. But you address the people and the government who are working with their eyes closed. Neither this government nor the previous government took the pain to know how the money is being spent. You will be surprised to know that millions of rupees is spent in IITs on those equipment which were never installed in the labs. IITs spend this money because HRD Ministry throws money at them. They money will never be productive.
It is true that IITians never serve the nations since it started. Two decade ago too, almost all IITians served abroad. Only after the boost in IT, and with the emergence of tech companies like Wipro, Infosys, etc, a few IITians work in India.
In IIT Roorkee, money flows as water during floods. Here, faculty’s first motive is consultancy. Second one is to get portfolio in administration. If there is still time, attend classes. There is no time for research and development. A professor here can earn over Rs. 1 crore every year on just consultancy. It is boon for them. – Rama Kant
***
There is a university/institute in Israel called Technion – Israel Institute of Technology, which was established in 1912. The fact about this institute is that the students developed Israel from a "small" country surrounded by enemies to self-reliant and stable country (four Nobel laureates). This is one point which shows 'patriotism' or 'serving county'.
In India, 70% of the students who get admitted to the IITs/NITs come from poor or middle-class backgrounds. So, their basic needs always start with money. If they get a good salary package in MNCs, then why should they go for low package government services? This is the naked reality.
"Bhagvan sab ka bhala kare par shuruat mujse kare". I am not from the IIT/IIM/NIT, but I can understand their situation and their scenario. – Hemang Brahmbhatt
***
The argument about the subsidy to the IITs lacks on the basic aspect of instruction that we impart to the students in 7,500+ engineering institutions in the country, including the IITs (“Dear Smriti Irani, stop giving my money to IITians”). If we do this right, then we can argue about various aspects raised in this discussion.
1. We are following by and large the legacy and philosophy left by the British, which catered to the PWD culture created by them with modifications here and there, particularly in subjects like electronics that evolved post World War II in the 1950s. British legacy (so also the rest of the world) was based on the need to get on the job of designing once rotating machinery came in 1883 along with a host of applications. The developments in 1883 were a result of the Science Revolution from the latter half of the 17th century. This science basically remained same but posed enormous hurdles to provide solutions, and therefore engineering approximation approach was developed. This involved in drastic simplification, trial and error designs, and expensive and time consuming testing methods. It would take months to arrive at a design.
2. This approach ruled till 1980s and things suddenly changed with the number crunching capability through digital computers (HPC ‒ High Performance Computing). Until 1994, India has prohibited import of personal computers (for whatever reasons) and few institutions like IITs and national laboratories could only have access to them. The world has changed from approximate and outdated procedures to accurate and simulation-based approach. Today, engineering outlook has changed and it is all “science to engineering approach” or “simulation-based engineering science”.
3. The phenomenon that took place in early 1900s in India, and returned in the 1998 time frame. The same way British South Africa faced the crunch of coolies in South African ports and stations, and Indians were imported by them to fulfil this need. Indians came into rescue again, this time with banking services. Western banks used COBOL language to maintain the accounts of the customers using two digits for the year in 1950s. This language has changed over decades and people have forgotten this – in India, the same old COBOL language was taught and fitted the bill to change the year from two digits to four digits in all codes – the so-called Y2K problem. This resulted in high prosperity and economics through IT revolution since 2000.
4. The manpower needed was huge and therefore we mushroomed engineering institutions, which are by and large below-average in standard. This didn’t matter since IT companies provided the necessary training (so-called tool operators or techies) without fundamentals. The growth that we have seen is now under intense pressure with other less-developed countries eying on the same model. Unfortunately, my understanding is that IITs didn’t do better, probably because there is a rapid expansion in their numbers too.
5. These bring us to the hard point of revitalizing our engineering education and bring it to the present industry standards. It is a huge task for the Human Resource Ministry to replace the current outdated pattern to simulation-based engineering science approach. The earlier it is done, the better it is for the country.
6. The inability for general development in our defence, energy and space sectors is due to the inadequacy of quality of manpower that drives us to depend on foreign technology. Of course, it is common knowledge that we have to change our procedures of recruitment, training, centralised vs decentralised, among other reforms. But they will be effective only when the basic human resource is good. – Prof JS Rao
* * *
Well said, why waste money on IITians? All sources should be scrutinised and money saved for the welfare of the country. Taxpayers’ money should not go to waste in any way, and IITians should be sent to the army to serve for five years and prove their ability and patriotism in place of the favour the government extend to them.
Such sensibilities will save country for further derailment. May God save this country! - Dalip Langoo
***
Though the writer has analysed the facts correctly, we could not understand why this analysis has been out now and not before, i.e. the in UPA’s regime. The writer needs to explain when this data was compiled (when it was started and when it was completed) and when it has been shown to the public. This seems to be political statement based on timing. – HK Gupta
***
It is with regret that I write that your standards have fallen. Your articles, once thought provoking, now evoke only disgust at the level of ignorance of tried and tested principles.
It doesn't matter what an IITian (or any other well-educated person) directly achieves for your narrow, nationalistic view of service to the nation. The concept of productivity plays a far greater (but much underappreciated) role in national development, whether from the standpoint of better living conditions, national income, technological prowess or even through leadership. I will not delve into theory but ask that you consult any standard economic textbook. I'm certain that you will find similar arguments for socio cultural benefit of civic enrichment.
Many top professionals do not end up satisfying your fetish for 'seeing is believing' direct benefit because the conditions (pay, working conditions, professional development) do not incentivise them to. Perhaps it is time to inspect on these items in open letters to policymakers rather than hailing back to the quasi communist thinking of the poor reforms area. The Soviet Union had the best brains working for them but look how that ended up for them!
I look forward to higher quality in your writing. – Tanay Dalal
***
The subsidy to IITs should be discontinued immediately. The following measures may help:
1. Three different rates for students depending upon their parent’s economic status.
2. Market rate for students who are parents whose income is over 12 lakh an annum.
3. Partially subsidised rates for students from middle income groups, say from 7-12 lakh per annum.
4. Fully subsidised fee for students who come from a household of with an annual income of 7 lakh.
5. Easy availability of bank loans for students of all categories mentioned above.
6. Some amount of funding by top corporate recruiters.
7. More number of research projects as desired by the Industry with a gainful objective.
The subsidy burden on the government will reduce considerably if the above measures are considered. – Avijit Bose
***
As an engineer, I agree with the opinion expressed in the article. Many IITians are Brahminical engineers. They may not have operated a spanner throughout their course, and we are used to paying a Brahmin for thinking and not doing anything concrete himself. – Shenoi MPV
Blaming IITians is not farce
The purpose of starting the Indian Institute of Technology by Jawaharlal Nehru was for future growth in the industrial and science field. If one looks back, it is very clear that those who studied in the IIT are never ready to stay and make the country self-sufficient (“Dear IITians, how successful have you been in making India self-reliant in technology?”). In fact, they keep one leg out of India as soon as they join and both the legs out as soon as they complete the course. Nobody insists they should serve the country with dedication. We are disappointed not to have bagged a Noble prize in any of the technical/science field for a long time.
For these things, blaming IITians is not farce. It is how you prepare them and train them that is important. We lack love for the country and never encourage a person with a vision. Instead of blaming IITians for everything, concentrate on the reasons for the crème of our people whose urge is to serve in a foreign country. Is our country unable to create the atmosphere that foreign countries do? See the reaction of our so-called intellectuals to the PM’s Make in India. They are reducing him instead of working with him. – Lakshmana Bheemarao
***
May I humbly bring to your notice what an IITian (yours truly) has done for the country:
1. Mass healthcare: Primary Health Centres in India had no diagnostic facilities. Today, almost all PHCs have biomedical equipment-based diagnostic facilities.
2. Rehabilitation of the disabled: Particularly for the blind, opened avenue of employment as lathe machine operator, car repair mechanic, etc.
3. Population control: India was completely dependent upon imports for some important contraceptives like the Copper T and Tubal Occlusion ring. IITians have helped the Indian industry to come up. Today, India meets all its needs from indigenous production and is exporting to over 15 countries.
4. Defence: Developed an electrical impedance system for quantifying high altitude induced pulmonary edema in soldiers. The technique has helped the Indian Army reduce its incidences. Developed a special form of Anti G suit for pilots. The compression applied by the suit changes in time as the circulatory system of the pilot changes. Developed a Thermoelectric cooling vest for army tank operators, who operate tanks in the hot border areas in the desert. Recently developed improved explosion resistant vehicle. – Sujoy K Guha
***
I am mechanical engineer who attempted to get into the Indian defence services 13 times, but did not get selected. I have a good salary at present but I still want to be in the forces. In last five years, I have not seen a single vacancy from the so-called premier DRDO asking for a general category candidate. Then why are you blaming the IITians?
Suppose I pay my taxes regularly for five years and in the sixth year I am laid off, will the government account for my unemployment? There are so many other genuine questions. I do accept that it is a mistake that the government is making but is it not a well-planned act? MBBS doctors are asked to render service for two years in rural government health centres, then why can't these engineers be asked to do the same? This is the only solution. - Rentu Philipose
***
The question raised is very pertinent. However, I feel that there is no need for an IITain to join the defence services. They might be overqualified for that job. What is lacking is the motivation level and national pride. – G Ankaia
We welcome your comments at
letters@scroll.in.
The author Nivvedan Senthamil Selvan, tries to substantiate his arguments against the subsidies given to the Indian Institute of Technologies, but fails miserably (“No, Smriti Irani is not wasting your money on the IITians”). In our country, both doctors (there are some exceptions) and IITians are most greedy people around. Their contribution to our motherland is negligible when compared to the amount spent on their subsidies. – ASI Kannan
***
I fully endorse your views on the subsidy to the IITs. The students should take loans from banks and the government should facilitate this. The payment of this loan would be very easy for IITians, as they earn a very good salary later. This subsidy should be used to strengthen primary education instead. – NK Kashmira
***
Don't envy IITians. They do a better job that feeds the hungry Indians than the media houses. They earn revenue 1,500 times more for the government than the media houses, by working for government projects given to them. And most of all, mind you, their parents pay their fees and not the government. Stop exploiting IITians. – Sara M
***
This is quite a valid concern. Those studying engineering from government colleges should not be allowed to change their stream immediately. They should be guided towards M.Tech instead. – Ajay Buttan
***
Your article on the IITs is an eye opener to every human being. But you address the people and the government who are working with their eyes closed. Neither this government nor the previous government took the pain to know how the money is being spent. You will be surprised to know that millions of rupees is spent in IITs on those equipment which were never installed in the labs. IITs spend this money because HRD Ministry throws money at them. They money will never be productive.
It is true that IITians never serve the nations since it started. Two decade ago too, almost all IITians served abroad. Only after the boost in IT, and with the emergence of tech companies like Wipro, Infosys, etc, a few IITians work in India.
In IIT Roorkee, money flows as water during floods. Here, faculty’s first motive is consultancy. Second one is to get portfolio in administration. If there is still time, attend classes. There is no time for research and development. A professor here can earn over Rs. 1 crore every year on just consultancy. It is boon for them. – Rama Kant
***
There is a university/institute in Israel called Technion – Israel Institute of Technology, which was established in 1912. The fact about this institute is that the students developed Israel from a "small" country surrounded by enemies to self-reliant and stable country (four Nobel laureates). This is one point which shows 'patriotism' or 'serving county'.
In India, 70% of the students who get admitted to the IITs/NITs come from poor or middle-class backgrounds. So, their basic needs always start with money. If they get a good salary package in MNCs, then why should they go for low package government services? This is the naked reality.
"Bhagvan sab ka bhala kare par shuruat mujse kare". I am not from the IIT/IIM/NIT, but I can understand their situation and their scenario. – Hemang Brahmbhatt
***
The argument about the subsidy to the IITs lacks on the basic aspect of instruction that we impart to the students in 7,500+ engineering institutions in the country, including the IITs (“Dear Smriti Irani, stop giving my money to IITians”). If we do this right, then we can argue about various aspects raised in this discussion.
1. We are following by and large the legacy and philosophy left by the British, which catered to the PWD culture created by them with modifications here and there, particularly in subjects like electronics that evolved post World War II in the 1950s. British legacy (so also the rest of the world) was based on the need to get on the job of designing once rotating machinery came in 1883 along with a host of applications. The developments in 1883 were a result of the Science Revolution from the latter half of the 17th century. This science basically remained same but posed enormous hurdles to provide solutions, and therefore engineering approximation approach was developed. This involved in drastic simplification, trial and error designs, and expensive and time consuming testing methods. It would take months to arrive at a design.
2. This approach ruled till 1980s and things suddenly changed with the number crunching capability through digital computers (HPC ‒ High Performance Computing). Until 1994, India has prohibited import of personal computers (for whatever reasons) and few institutions like IITs and national laboratories could only have access to them. The world has changed from approximate and outdated procedures to accurate and simulation-based approach. Today, engineering outlook has changed and it is all “science to engineering approach” or “simulation-based engineering science”.
3. The phenomenon that took place in early 1900s in India, and returned in the 1998 time frame. The same way British South Africa faced the crunch of coolies in South African ports and stations, and Indians were imported by them to fulfil this need. Indians came into rescue again, this time with banking services. Western banks used COBOL language to maintain the accounts of the customers using two digits for the year in 1950s. This language has changed over decades and people have forgotten this – in India, the same old COBOL language was taught and fitted the bill to change the year from two digits to four digits in all codes – the so-called Y2K problem. This resulted in high prosperity and economics through IT revolution since 2000.
4. The manpower needed was huge and therefore we mushroomed engineering institutions, which are by and large below-average in standard. This didn’t matter since IT companies provided the necessary training (so-called tool operators or techies) without fundamentals. The growth that we have seen is now under intense pressure with other less-developed countries eying on the same model. Unfortunately, my understanding is that IITs didn’t do better, probably because there is a rapid expansion in their numbers too.
5. These bring us to the hard point of revitalizing our engineering education and bring it to the present industry standards. It is a huge task for the Human Resource Ministry to replace the current outdated pattern to simulation-based engineering science approach. The earlier it is done, the better it is for the country.
6. The inability for general development in our defence, energy and space sectors is due to the inadequacy of quality of manpower that drives us to depend on foreign technology. Of course, it is common knowledge that we have to change our procedures of recruitment, training, centralised vs decentralised, among other reforms. But they will be effective only when the basic human resource is good. – Prof JS Rao
* * *
Well said, why waste money on IITians? All sources should be scrutinised and money saved for the welfare of the country. Taxpayers’ money should not go to waste in any way, and IITians should be sent to the army to serve for five years and prove their ability and patriotism in place of the favour the government extend to them.
Such sensibilities will save country for further derailment. May God save this country! - Dalip Langoo
***
Though the writer has analysed the facts correctly, we could not understand why this analysis has been out now and not before, i.e. the in UPA’s regime. The writer needs to explain when this data was compiled (when it was started and when it was completed) and when it has been shown to the public. This seems to be political statement based on timing. – HK Gupta
***
It is with regret that I write that your standards have fallen. Your articles, once thought provoking, now evoke only disgust at the level of ignorance of tried and tested principles.
It doesn't matter what an IITian (or any other well-educated person) directly achieves for your narrow, nationalistic view of service to the nation. The concept of productivity plays a far greater (but much underappreciated) role in national development, whether from the standpoint of better living conditions, national income, technological prowess or even through leadership. I will not delve into theory but ask that you consult any standard economic textbook. I'm certain that you will find similar arguments for socio cultural benefit of civic enrichment.
Many top professionals do not end up satisfying your fetish for 'seeing is believing' direct benefit because the conditions (pay, working conditions, professional development) do not incentivise them to. Perhaps it is time to inspect on these items in open letters to policymakers rather than hailing back to the quasi communist thinking of the poor reforms area. The Soviet Union had the best brains working for them but look how that ended up for them!
I look forward to higher quality in your writing. – Tanay Dalal
***
The subsidy to IITs should be discontinued immediately. The following measures may help:
1. Three different rates for students depending upon their parent’s economic status.
2. Market rate for students who are parents whose income is over 12 lakh an annum.
3. Partially subsidised rates for students from middle income groups, say from 7-12 lakh per annum.
4. Fully subsidised fee for students who come from a household of with an annual income of 7 lakh.
5. Easy availability of bank loans for students of all categories mentioned above.
6. Some amount of funding by top corporate recruiters.
7. More number of research projects as desired by the Industry with a gainful objective.
The subsidy burden on the government will reduce considerably if the above measures are considered. – Avijit Bose
***
As an engineer, I agree with the opinion expressed in the article. Many IITians are Brahminical engineers. They may not have operated a spanner throughout their course, and we are used to paying a Brahmin for thinking and not doing anything concrete himself. – Shenoi MPV
Blaming IITians is not farce
The purpose of starting the Indian Institute of Technology by Jawaharlal Nehru was for future growth in the industrial and science field. If one looks back, it is very clear that those who studied in the IIT are never ready to stay and make the country self-sufficient (“Dear IITians, how successful have you been in making India self-reliant in technology?”). In fact, they keep one leg out of India as soon as they join and both the legs out as soon as they complete the course. Nobody insists they should serve the country with dedication. We are disappointed not to have bagged a Noble prize in any of the technical/science field for a long time.
For these things, blaming IITians is not farce. It is how you prepare them and train them that is important. We lack love for the country and never encourage a person with a vision. Instead of blaming IITians for everything, concentrate on the reasons for the crème of our people whose urge is to serve in a foreign country. Is our country unable to create the atmosphere that foreign countries do? See the reaction of our so-called intellectuals to the PM’s Make in India. They are reducing him instead of working with him. – Lakshmana Bheemarao
***
May I humbly bring to your notice what an IITian (yours truly) has done for the country:
1. Mass healthcare: Primary Health Centres in India had no diagnostic facilities. Today, almost all PHCs have biomedical equipment-based diagnostic facilities.
2. Rehabilitation of the disabled: Particularly for the blind, opened avenue of employment as lathe machine operator, car repair mechanic, etc.
3. Population control: India was completely dependent upon imports for some important contraceptives like the Copper T and Tubal Occlusion ring. IITians have helped the Indian industry to come up. Today, India meets all its needs from indigenous production and is exporting to over 15 countries.
4. Defence: Developed an electrical impedance system for quantifying high altitude induced pulmonary edema in soldiers. The technique has helped the Indian Army reduce its incidences. Developed a special form of Anti G suit for pilots. The compression applied by the suit changes in time as the circulatory system of the pilot changes. Developed a Thermoelectric cooling vest for army tank operators, who operate tanks in the hot border areas in the desert. Recently developed improved explosion resistant vehicle. – Sujoy K Guha
***
I am mechanical engineer who attempted to get into the Indian defence services 13 times, but did not get selected. I have a good salary at present but I still want to be in the forces. In last five years, I have not seen a single vacancy from the so-called premier DRDO asking for a general category candidate. Then why are you blaming the IITians?
Suppose I pay my taxes regularly for five years and in the sixth year I am laid off, will the government account for my unemployment? There are so many other genuine questions. I do accept that it is a mistake that the government is making but is it not a well-planned act? MBBS doctors are asked to render service for two years in rural government health centres, then why can't these engineers be asked to do the same? This is the only solution. - Rentu Philipose
***
The question raised is very pertinent. However, I feel that there is no need for an IITain to join the defence services. They might be overqualified for that job. What is lacking is the motivation level and national pride. – G Ankaia
